User talk:Larry Sanger

Archive, project start through Jan. 2007

"First recruit"

Hi Larry. I'd love to claim the distinction of being the first recruit under the new system, but I actually registered almost a week ago, but no one approved me (or maybe my "let me in" email got lost). But when I saw your message to Citizendium-L tonight I figured that the system might let me in without a manual switch of my status. Ian Ramjohn 19:48, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Oh, I see! Sorry about the delay. All the personnel admins have been extremely busy and we've been falling down on the job. --Larry Sanger 19:50, 22 January 2007 (CST)

No problem. I should have shut up and claimed the distinction anyway ;) Ian Ramjohn 20:03, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Is it possible for the Citizendium community to share the administrator work-load? --Christian Steinbach 03:54, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Required summaries

Warning people who haven't provided a summary is kind of a neat feature for the articles, but it gets annoying when you're using a talk page. Is there any way to turn this off for talk pages? Anthony 20:28, 22 January 2007 (CST)

I'm not sure what you mean--what warning? Let me try not using a summary... Well, I don't get a warning, I wonder why not and you do. Oh, it's a setting. See Special:Preferences and click on "Editing" and then uncheck "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary". Probably we can set the default "off." Could you send a mail to bugs@citizendium.org to that effect? --Larry Sanger 20:34, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Indeed, it is a preference, and I guess the default was set to "on". Here I thought you went and had someone code that up especially for CZ.  :) Should I send an email to bugs saying that you want to set the default to "off"? Anthony 20:45, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Yes please. --Larry Sanger 20:53, 22 January 2007 (CST)

OK, done, now I'm off for the night. Anthony 20:57, 22 January 2007 (CST)

Thanks! --Larry Sanger 21:16, 22 January 2007 (CST)

re: your comment

Hi Larry, Yes I do understand that forking/unforking does not really affect whether Wikipedia will take our content or not. Don't take me wrong, I'm not completely giving up and leaving in protest like I have seen others do, I will see how everything goes for the next few weeks/months and I will come back if I'm convinced that there is a future here - I have a lot of other things that I could be spending my time on, so I would really like to see that my work will not just disappear into obscure parts of the internet. I mentioned the unforking busieness not because I think it is such a bad idea, but because it made me realise that CZ has a very long way to go until it becomes recognized and has a lot going against it. --Konstantin Tchernov 01:07, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Well, Konstantin, we aren't idiots.  :-) If we see that there is less activity, or not as much as we might expect, then we will refork. In either case, you should see substantial activity, and thus there is no reason to take a break at all!  :-)

Yes, we've always had a long way to go in either case. But do not underestimate our potential. I don't, because I saw the growth of Wikipedia first hand and I know how it happened. I am seeing the same things happen--and I will be very interested to watch the Google effect, when we launch publicly and begin more viral growth than we have now. It will take time, true, but as long as we are growing--as we are--then it is only a matter of time before we have a bulk of material comparable to Wikipedia. --Larry Sanger 08:12, 23 January 2007 (CST)

I am enjoying this,Larry

Larry, you will be please to know that I have started working on some British Commonwealth numismatic articles. So, please feel free to look through my contributions list. You may not be aware that I have decided to create some categories in relation to numismatics, as there will eventually be some coin and banknote collectors who will be joining us. I am hoping to be a much better Citizendian than I was as a Wikipedian. - (Aidan Work 00:51, 27 January 2007 (CST))

A comment here was deleted by The Constabulary on grounds of making complaints about fellow Citizens. If you have a complaint about the behavior of another Citizen, e-mail constables@citizendium.org. It is contrary to Citizendium policy to air your complaints on the wiki. See also CZ:Professionalism.

RE:Welcome

Thanks for the welcome, Dr. Sanger. This is an interesting concept shift from Wikipedia, and I look forward to contributing and seeing how the project develops! Richard Simões 18:54, 30 January 2007 (CST)

Welcome! I was travelling for a few days but am back now. --Larry Sanger 21:30, 31 January 2007 (CST)

how are the ties??

Larry One thing that struck me as odd, I mean where is Jekyll and where is Hyde. Beesly - Sanger :) Check your talk page and wipe the sh*t away that person left behind. I do have one serious request (rubbing my hands, grabbing additional salt): will you please put the welcoming message in the user TALK page and not in tehe USER page? (rub it in rub it in). Thanks, glad to be able to pull your legs for a change :)). Robert Tito 14:08, 31 January 2007 (CST)

(-: Reverted... --Larry Sanger 21:30, 31 January 2007 (CST)

crowded logo??

dont sit on top of it then please Robert Tito 21:51, 31 January 2007 (CST)

Roberto, we need to talko about how many can sito on the logo. --Larry Sanger 22:06, 31 January 2007 (CST)

trio musta beo to mucho :) Robert Tito 22:25, 31 January 2007 (CST)

Categories

Larry:

All I wanted to do was make 'Category:English queen consorts' go away. When I couldn't find out how to edit it away, I tried replacing it with 'Category:English queens consort' and redirecting it, but that didn't work, and that article is the stub I was using to try to redirect it to a non-empty place, since I couldn't make it go to an empty one, but it kept saying there was an editing conflict I don't understand. When I tried to ask a question, I kept being directed to a place it said I had to register and couldn't start a new subject, and I didn't know what that was all about, so I gave up and was getting ready to send you this message when I got yours. Where, please, is there a page I can ask questions by editing them onto a CZ page 24/7 without doing e-mails I have to go to mailboxes to open or postings to forums/fora I don't know how to do?

Also, how come some pages have such big type, like your talk page now, and some are formatted too wide for me to read on my screen, like the one about choosing a dog yesterday? k kay 23:07, 31 January 2007 (CST)

Er...I don't know? Please press that "Questions?" button on the left and ask away. --Larry Sanger 14:28, 1 February 2007 (CST)

recruitment letter

http://pilot.citizendium.org/wiki/Citizendium_Pilot:Recruitment_Letter#Version_2_for_Biological_.2F_Health_Sciences

Larry, could you help me on this? -Tom Kelly (Talk) 23:41, 31 January 2007 (CST)

I hope to make time soon! As usual, catching up is a big chore. --Larry Sanger 14:26, 1 February 2007 (CST)

protection of pages

Hi Larry, Protection of pages using a MAC does NOT work. You can put it in edit mode, but selecting/deleting of options is impossible. hence you remain with an unprotected page, I tried to protect Nancy's pages during the vandal attack as she was treated rather rude but I couldnt do it in the way I expected or wanted it to work. Robert Tito 13:23, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Hi Rob, to protect a page, you only need to press the "protect" button. Why do you need to select or delete options in order to do this? --Larry Sanger 14:21, 1 February 2007 (CST) OK, I tested it out. I see what you mean now, you do need to select "Sysops Only". What happens when you try to select it? You should be able to do that on any computer using any browser. --Larry Sanger 14:24, 1 February 2007 (CST) Hi Larry, I get NO feed abck WHAT is protected when I select ONE option. If I try to protect edit (sysops) AND move (sysops) that is impossible to do, strange the combo is possible then. see ya. Rob

searching for new users with the right interests and level /* CUT */

Larry, Due to the large amount of new users it starts to get errattic to find people you might be looking for to work on particular topics. Is there a script that enables us to look for users with qualification/field/topic knowledge A and B? It would be nice to get a list with possible candidates then to ask them if they are willing to contribute so a certain topic as either author or editor. Hope there is such a script. Robert Tito 23:10, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Go to search, then scroll to the bottom of the search results, and search the User namespace. That's the best I can do right now, I'm afraid. --Larry Sanger 00:46, 3 February 2007 (CST)

Citizendium's Village Pump?

Dr. Sanger,
Congratulations for your project, you're really making history!
I have a question: why don't we use a Citizendium page to support Citizens discussions in the same way of Wikipedia's Village Pump? I guess many Citizens don't like that Forum, because its no-”wikiform/structure” and the fact that it's out of Citizendium (needing one more password). --Roberto Cruz 17:53, 3 February 2007 (CST)

I hope you are right. I am optimistic, but you know that hubris leads to nemesis. And you know why? Because hubristic people get complacent and complacency opens one up to all sorts of weaknesses. Well, I ain't complacent, I can guarantee you that. When I say I am optimistic, I mean only that I am not worrying quite as much.  :-) Somebody really ought to write an article about hubris, not just about the meaning of the word, but about the ancient Greek concept. I'd be quite interested. Actually, I see that Wikipedia's article looks reasonably good--but what do I know, I'm just a philosopher.

Anyway, as to a Village Pump, I'm not sure that the extra complexity of the total discussion system would "pay for itself." Granted, it would be easier for people to jump straight to a wiki-based discussion system, but it really isn't that hard to click on the "Discussion forums" link, and besides, you can opt to always be logged in. So ultimately, what's the difference? Besides, wikis are woefully suboptimal as discussion software. I personally much prefer SMF Forums.

We will eventually--or, it's our plan to--have a single login for all CZ components. --Larry Sanger 19:03, 3 February 2007 (CST)

Propaganda

Dr. Sanger,

I'm making a lot of propaganda inside Wikipedia about Citizendium [1] (lol) and trying to get new Citizens/Citizendians among unsatisfied Wikipedians (like me) [2] (a good job, I guess! ;-) --Roberto Cruz 09:17, 6 February 2007 (CST)

• Thanks, Roberto--although this is not something I want to encourage or that I condone. I would of course like Wikipedians to know that there is an increasingly viable alternative to Wikipedia, but it is really not fair play to use Wikipedia's own resources to get the word out. We of course would not permit people to come to CZ and post many messages to the effect, "Don't contribute here--contribute to Wikipedia!" --Larry Sanger 11:28, 6 February 2007 (CST)

• Dr. Sanger, you're right: it isn't a fair play. I changed my coments to a neutral position, only inform my Wikipedian colleagues about CZ positive features. --Roberto Cruz 12:59, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Two points:

• I am editing at both WP and CZ, and encouraging others to do so. I don't think it should be presented as an either/or choice.
• The best way to get Wikipedians to edit at CZ is to promise that they can work in peace without being plagued by trolls, vandals and fanatics. This requires CZ to exercise some care in admitting editors who have bad records at WP (ie, have been banned for good reasons). Adam Carr 19:20, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Adam, while I am sure that WP has made most of its bans on sensible grounds, I've seen enough evidence that the WP arbitration/banning process is dysfunctional that we really must make our own calls. The nice thing, however, is that we can be quite a bit more efficient in our own bans, because we have made it quite clear that we do not tolerate much behavior that WP goes out of its way to tolerate. --Larry Sanger 12:02, 7 February 2007 (CST)

I have seen a situation where a quality editor was banned for one week for removing potentially libelous content from WP. Apparently, Jimbo caught wind, who then rebuked the lynch mob that instigated the ban and then the admin who hit the ban button. The user was back in several hours. But that does not happen very often. WP bans for senseless vandalism are probably all valid, but I do not trust it much further than that. Stephen Ewen 16:59, 7 February 2007 (CST)

A quick question...

...TIA? --Jeff Raymond 13:19, 6 February 2007 (CST)

TIA = Thanks in Advance (I think) -- ZachPruckowski (Talk) 21:10, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Yes, thanks in advance. Nothing indecent, I assure you. You can consult the Great Oracle of Google about all such things y'know. --Larry Sanger 11:42, 7 February 2007 (CST)

I hear the head constable will get you for that abreviation stuff;) --Matt Innis (Talk) 13:23, 7 February 2007 (CST)

ROTFLMAO --Larry Sanger 13:40, 7 February 2007 (CST)

IWBROTFIIDNHaRC,BISLMAO (I Would Be Rolling On The Floor If I DidN't Have a Reclining Chair, But I'm Still Laughing My A$$ Off) -- ZachPruckowski (Talk) 16:56, 7 February 2007 (CST)

your in troooublllle. >;!--Matt Innis (Talk) 17:02, 7 February 2007 (CST)

TIA - is that for the Tran-Loi-Minh-Qi-Gong Kung-Fu International Association? Stephen Ewen 16:49, 7 February 2007 (CST)

Perhaps we need an article on that...d;-) . Thanks! --Jeff Raymond 17:27, 7 February 2007 (CST)

Tran-Loi-Minh Qi-Gong Kung-Fu International Association.[3] There. All ready for you, Jeff. Hope you can read Swedish, though. :-) Stephen Ewen 20:11, 7 February 2007 (CST)