Talk:Z (letter): Difference between revisions
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"In some Scottish words z is pronounced as y: tailzie, capercailzie, Dalzell (in some families)." Sorry, but this doesn't communicate. I know the pronunciation *Dêe-éll for '''Dalziél''' - presumably also for '''Dalzell''' - but I'm not clear about the pronunciations of the others. [[User:Ro Thorpe|Ro Thorpe]] 15:27, 3 September 2011 (UTC) | |||
:I looked it up in a dictionary and it varies: tailyi or taili. I'll add in that option. | |||
:As with a number of surnames, pronunciation varies between families. Some say Dalyell, some Dee-ell. | |||
:I was going to ask how you'd analyse the Dee-ell pronunciation. Historically it's presumably Dalyell > Dayell > Dee-ell, so one might regard the z as a vowel. Synchronically one might treat it as an odd pronunciation of a. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] 13:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC) | |||
That's clear about Dalzell/Dalziel, but I've never heard (of) the other two. From what you say, tâil(y)êe and câper-câilyêe? - After which, I decided to discover the meanings. My Concise Oxford has no tailzie, but gives capercaillie as an alternative spelling and pronunciation for the other one. The Menzies Campbell pronunciation, Mingies, seems to be a related example (although perhaps not, as the z was said to be a corrupted g symbol). [[User:Ro Thorpe|Ro Thorpe]] 18:04, 4 September 2011 (UTC) | |||
:Usually cáper-. | |||
:I'd forgotten Menzies. Standard Scots pronunciation of this name, not just him. I suppose this counts as an anomalous pronunciation of n. | |||
:I've deleted Dalzell for now. For the dee-ell pronunciation there should be a separate entry. dee-yell looks rather artificial. I'm not sure whether some families still say dalyell. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] 10:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC) | |||
::I've modified 'caper-' here, and 'Menzies' in the alphabetical list. The 'Dalziel' spelling is already in the list and I've added 'Dalzell'; I agree it rather gets in the way here, and 'Dêe-éll' is clear enough. [[User:Ro Thorpe|Ro Thorpe]] 13:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 07:41, 5 September 2011
"In some Scottish words z is pronounced as y: tailzie, capercailzie, Dalzell (in some families)." Sorry, but this doesn't communicate. I know the pronunciation *Dêe-éll for Dalziél - presumably also for Dalzell - but I'm not clear about the pronunciations of the others. Ro Thorpe 15:27, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- I looked it up in a dictionary and it varies: tailyi or taili. I'll add in that option.
- As with a number of surnames, pronunciation varies between families. Some say Dalyell, some Dee-ell.
- I was going to ask how you'd analyse the Dee-ell pronunciation. Historically it's presumably Dalyell > Dayell > Dee-ell, so one might regard the z as a vowel. Synchronically one might treat it as an odd pronunciation of a. Peter Jackson 13:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
That's clear about Dalzell/Dalziel, but I've never heard (of) the other two. From what you say, tâil(y)êe and câper-câilyêe? - After which, I decided to discover the meanings. My Concise Oxford has no tailzie, but gives capercaillie as an alternative spelling and pronunciation for the other one. The Menzies Campbell pronunciation, Mingies, seems to be a related example (although perhaps not, as the z was said to be a corrupted g symbol). Ro Thorpe 18:04, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
- Usually cáper-.
- I'd forgotten Menzies. Standard Scots pronunciation of this name, not just him. I suppose this counts as an anomalous pronunciation of n.
- I've deleted Dalzell for now. For the dee-ell pronunciation there should be a separate entry. dee-yell looks rather artificial. I'm not sure whether some families still say dalyell. Peter Jackson 10:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
- I've modified 'caper-' here, and 'Menzies' in the alphabetical list. The 'Dalziel' spelling is already in the list and I've added 'Dalzell'; I agree it rather gets in the way here, and 'Dêe-éll' is clear enough. Ro Thorpe 13:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)