Talk:Skin

Oriental medicine/acupuncture

This article should be primarily about skin itself, not things one can do with skin. Topics such as cosmetics, acupuncture, dermatology, cosmetic surgery, and soap are related to skin but should be primarily presented in other articles. I think a brief mention of acupuncture is likely appropriate, but a detailed discussion should be deferred to acupuncture. The scientific analysis of acupuncture is too complicated to neutrally summarize in this article, so I think we should replace:

Modern attempts to verify to existence of acupoints on the skin, with the help of functional magnetic resonance imaging and positron emission tomography of the brain, suggest that at least some acupoints do exist, although their material substrate remains unknown.[2]

with

The scientific basis for acupuncture is unclear; see acupuncture for details.

--Warren Schudy 15:28, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Hi Warren,

This is about the skin (emphasis mine):

"Oriental philosophy views the body as a microcosm interacting with the macrocosm (the "outer" universe). Meridians and acupoints (acupuncture points) located in the skin are viewed as agents of this interaction. Modern attempts to verify the existence of acupoints on the skin, with the help of functional magnetic resonance imaging and positron emission tomography of the brain, suggest that at least some acupoints do exist, although their material substrate remains unknown.[2]"

We're dealing with instruments, methods, researchers and publications (I invite you to read the reference) that are worthy of trust validating to some extent the "oriental view" about the skin. As the article develops, and as many experts enrich this article, this little section will show that CZ is truly encyclopedic, a true reflection of Human's knowledge.

But I can see something wrong with what I wrote:

1) I begin with a general consideration: skin=an interface btw microcosm and macrocosm,

2) through meridians and acupoints;

3) A comparatively long sentence about the recognition of the existence of some acupoints (what about meridians?) with a specific technique (how was it used? -- one has to read the text in the footnote...)

So, from 1)-2) to 3), there's a leap, from a general worldview to a specific thing (acupoints), a thing which is often viewed through the lens of the complementary/authoritative research debates. But, no, this is not a medical issue. At its core the question raised is : does the "oriental worldview" have something to tell about the skin that "we" did not look for? The answer is not maybe, it is yes. No need to send this to the acupuncture debate.

Maybe I could develop more on the acupuncture point page?

I would suggest, for now, something like:

"Oriental philosophy views the body as a microcosm interacting with the macrocosm (the "outer" universe). Meridians and acupoints located in the skin are viewed as agents of this interaction. Although the scientific basis for acupuncture is unclear and its potential clinical uses are debated (see acupuncture for details), neuroimaging studies suggest that at least some points on the skin are distinct entities consistent with the oriental tradition (see acupuncture point for details).

Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 16:42, 10 January 2008 (CST)

I just made your suggested change, but I removed the italics. Warren Schudy 17:32, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Great! I hope to have enough time to work on the acupuncture point page. I'll see if D. Matt Innis, who is also an acupuncturist, is available to help. Feel free to change the wording of this section; my English is latinized, because I'm a native French speaker.

Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 08:41, 11 January 2008 (CST)