Talk:Maxwell equations: Difference between revisions
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imported>John R. Brews (→Constitutive relations: new section) |
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::::Quite so. I was hoping someone with more knowledge on the point might add it if I pointed out the issue. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] 11:57, 18 November 2008 (UTC) | ::::Quite so. I was hoping someone with more knowledge on the point might add it if I pointed out the issue. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] 11:57, 18 November 2008 (UTC) | ||
== Constitutive relations == | |||
Although the usage of the article at present is sometimes found, the equations: | |||
:<math> | |||
\mathbf{D} \equiv \epsilon_0\mathbf{E} + \mathbf{P},\qquad \mathbf{H} \equiv \frac{1}{\mu_0} \mathbf{B} - \mathbf{M}, | |||
</math> | |||
are not normally what is called ''constitutive'' relations. Rather, they are (as indicated here) definitions of the fields '''D''' and '''H''' that appear when materials are present. | |||
Rather, the constitutive equations more usually are taken to be formulas that allow elimination of '''D''' and '''H''', for example, by the introduction of permittivities or permeabilities: | |||
:<math> | |||
\mathbf D = \epsilon \mathbf E ; \qquad \mathbf H = \frac{1}{\mu} \mathbf B \ , </math> | |||
and the related susceptibilities: | |||
:<math> \mathbf P = \chi_e \mathbf E \ ; \qquad \mathbf M = \chi_m \mathbf H \ . | |||
</math> | |||
Some examples of this usage are [http://books.google.com/books?id=uIHSNwxBxjgC&pg=PA196&dq=susceptibility+constitutive&hl=en&ei=vk8KTcWwNJCosQPgsfmTCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=susceptibility%20constitutive&f=false Sihvola] and [http://books.google.com/books?ei=41AKTczQLpP6sAPKpYGACw&ct=result&id=M8XvAAAAMAAJ&dq=susceptibility+constitutive+inauthor%3AGriffiths&q=constitutive+inauthor%3AGriffiths#search_anchor Griffiths, p. 330], [http://books.google.com/books?id=_7rvAAAAMAAJ&q=susceptibility+constitutive+inauthor:Jackson&dq=susceptibility+constitutive+inauthor:Jackson&hl=en&ei=W1EKTdjvHI-asAO94IXkCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBg Jackson, p. 146]. [[User:John R. Brews|John R. Brews]] 17:52, 16 December 2010 (UTC) |
Revision as of 12:52, 16 December 2010
I don't see anything here about the question of magnetic monopoles. Peter Jackson 12:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
- Classically there are no magnetic monopoles, cf. first (magnetic) law and third (electric) law . Where the third law has a charge ( = monopole) on the right-hand side, the first law has zero. When you are not satisfied with the text about this point, please go ahead change it, CZ is a wiki. --Paul Wormer 14:25, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not an expert on this, & wouldn't know what answers to put in. All I can do without research is ask questions, eg did Maxwell consider the question? Peter Jackson 16:06, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
- Very early on (around 1780) it was clear that cutting magnets into two pieces always gave two poles, a North pole and a South pole, so Gauss around 1830 and Maxwell around 1870 definitely knew that a magnetic monopole was never observed. As far as I know there is no deeper reason known for the non-existence than the empirical fact that it has never been observed. --Paul Wormer 17:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
- Quite so. I was hoping someone with more knowledge on the point might add it if I pointed out the issue. Peter Jackson 11:57, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Constitutive relations
Although the usage of the article at present is sometimes found, the equations:
are not normally what is called constitutive relations. Rather, they are (as indicated here) definitions of the fields D and H that appear when materials are present.
Rather, the constitutive equations more usually are taken to be formulas that allow elimination of D and H, for example, by the introduction of permittivities or permeabilities:
and the related susceptibilities:
Some examples of this usage are Sihvola and Griffiths, p. 330, Jackson, p. 146. John R. Brews 17:52, 16 December 2010 (UTC)