Talk:Pali: Difference between revisions

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(upgrading definition of kamma/karma)
 
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== Beginning of future section, gathering info here ==
== Needed ==


A comparison of common terms in Vedic Sanskit vs. Pali, to illustrate similarity of the languages:
Need to verify and provide a reference for the dates of written Pali. As it stands, this is all gathered from chat rooms and unofficial websites.[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 13:48, 26 July 2020 (UTC)


* '''arhat''' (''Sanskrit'') or '''arahant''' (''Pali'')
:I've deleted the statement for now as it's problematic. There are no manuscripts that early that would normally be called Pali, but it depends on definitions. I'll get back when I've got time (Friday?)> [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter Jackson|talk]]) 09:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
** one who gained insight into the true nature of existence and no longer takes karmic actions (those with negative consequences for themselves or anyone else); similar to 'saint' in Christianity
* '''Dharma''' (Sanskit) or '''Dhamma''' (Pali)
** "to uphold": refers to the teachings to the Buddha about how the universe works and how a person can minimize or avoid suffering for themselves and others
* '''karma''' (Sanskrit) and '''kamma''' (Pali), "action"
** "action": a thought, speech or deed which results in immediate or future (negative) consequences; or, the part of one's fate which is a consequence of past karmic actions by oneself and/or others
* '''nirvana''' (''Sanskrit'') vs. '''nibbana''' (''Pali'')
** a state of peacefulness; a complete lack of suffering
* '''sutra''' (Sanskit) or '''sutta''' (Pali)
** "discourse": in Buddhist literature, a verse (or collection of verses on one topic)  


* '''sangha''' is the same in both
Consider English. We have, conventionally,
** a community of friends helping each other to practice the teachings of the Buddha


Need to add brief definitions of the above, and put them into a table.
#Old English (Anglo-Saxon) pre 1100, unintelligible to us
#Middle English 1100-1500, fairly intelligible in writing, but the pronunciation would be unintelligible to the uninformed
#Early Modern English 1500-1700, largely intelligible but noticeably different
#Moder English post 1700
 
So what's "English"?
 
Pali's slightly different in that we have no early manuscripts. The manuscripts and printed editions of the Canon are in a language not much different from that of later literature, but I think most scholars believe that the canonical texts have been linguistically altered over the centuries. They don't entirely agree on what changes were made and when. It's not even clear whether the canonical texts were originally composed in a single language/dialect, or whether they were varied and later standardized, and if so when. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter Jackson|talk]]) 11:56, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
 
The explanation of sangha sounded very modern. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter Jackson|talk]]) 10:47, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 
== Grammar question ==
 
In the next to last sentence of the History section, is the pronoun antecedent for "He considers" meant to be Cousins or Norman?[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 04:40, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 
:Grammatically, the sense of a sentence should run on with all bracketed material removed, but you're probably right it should be clarified. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter Jackson|talk]]) 10:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 
== Yay for the alphabet ==
Peter, thanks for including the alphabet.  I'm trying to get a little program I wrote to display all these correctly in a text file, so now I know exactly what to test for.[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 14:34, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 
:The WP article on Pali has a lot of stuff about the IT realizations of Pali (maybe too much in proportion to the amount on the language itself). I've got more to write, but not IT, which I leave to specialists like you. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter Jackson|talk]]) 10:37, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 
== Source I want to look at later ==
 
[https://www.academia.edu/34906743/The_dialectology_of_Indic?email_work_card=title]. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter Jackson|talk]]) 05:47, 12 September 2022 (CDT)

Latest revision as of 04:47, 12 September 2022

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 Definition:  An ancient Indic language from the Indian subcontinent, closely related to Sanskrit, in which the Pali Canon is written. [d] [e]
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Needed

Need to verify and provide a reference for the dates of written Pali. As it stands, this is all gathered from chat rooms and unofficial websites.Pat Palmer (talk) 13:48, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I've deleted the statement for now as it's problematic. There are no manuscripts that early that would normally be called Pali, but it depends on definitions. I'll get back when I've got time (Friday?)> Peter Jackson (talk) 09:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Consider English. We have, conventionally,

  1. Old English (Anglo-Saxon) pre 1100, unintelligible to us
  2. Middle English 1100-1500, fairly intelligible in writing, but the pronunciation would be unintelligible to the uninformed
  3. Early Modern English 1500-1700, largely intelligible but noticeably different
  4. Moder English post 1700

So what's "English"?

Pali's slightly different in that we have no early manuscripts. The manuscripts and printed editions of the Canon are in a language not much different from that of later literature, but I think most scholars believe that the canonical texts have been linguistically altered over the centuries. They don't entirely agree on what changes were made and when. It's not even clear whether the canonical texts were originally composed in a single language/dialect, or whether they were varied and later standardized, and if so when. Peter Jackson (talk) 11:56, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

The explanation of sangha sounded very modern. Peter Jackson (talk) 10:47, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Grammar question

In the next to last sentence of the History section, is the pronoun antecedent for "He considers" meant to be Cousins or Norman?Pat Palmer (talk) 04:40, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Grammatically, the sense of a sentence should run on with all bracketed material removed, but you're probably right it should be clarified. Peter Jackson (talk) 10:26, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Yay for the alphabet

Peter, thanks for including the alphabet. I'm trying to get a little program I wrote to display all these correctly in a text file, so now I know exactly what to test for.Pat Palmer (talk) 14:34, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

The WP article on Pali has a lot of stuff about the IT realizations of Pali (maybe too much in proportion to the amount on the language itself). I've got more to write, but not IT, which I leave to specialists like you. Peter Jackson (talk) 10:37, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Source I want to look at later

[1]. Peter Jackson (talk) 05:47, 12 September 2022 (CDT)

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