Talk:Cryptanalysis/Related Articles: Difference between revisions
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imported>Howard C. Berkowitz (Good material, Sandy) |
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My increasing sense is that dumping out topics on perhaps a hierarchy of RA pages is that -- not just here -- it is a way to deal with assorted peoples' top-down vs. bottom-up style. There's a major difference between demanding a capstone article, and just having a root RA page that branches into more. 12:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC) | My increasing sense is that dumping out topics on perhaps a hierarchy of RA pages is that -- not just here -- it is a way to deal with assorted peoples' top-down vs. bottom-up style. There's a major difference between demanding a capstone article, and just having a root RA page that branches into more. 12:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC) | ||
: What about ciphertext-only vs known plaintext, chosen plaintext, ... not sure of the whole list. I've even heard "chosen ciphertext"; my guess it involves tricking someone into decrypting things that help your analysis, but I'm nowhere near certain. Do those get articles? Redirects into sections of [[cryptanalysis]]? Should they include lists of other attacks, such as I've started in [[active attack]] and [[passive attack]]? [[User:Sandy Harris|Sandy Harris]] 13:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
::Do see the running discussion at [[CZ Talk: Usability]], where your input would be very welcome. To some extent, the immediate goal is getting out the problems we'd like to solve, with the solution second, but sometimes one has to play with the solution to solve the problem. | |||
::As I understand chosen plaintext, it's passive. Against Enigma, "Heil Hitler" near the start of the plaintext would be an obvious example. | |||
::Something that I've only heard called a "barium meal" or not even specific terms may be closer to the "tricking". Is the [[Battle of Midway]] target confirmation an example of what you have in mind? Cryptanalysis of the JN25 fleet code said they were going attack "AF", but the target codes were an inner layer. Confirming it took multiple steps, including a number that will not be available in every circumstance. The US knew that Japan was monitoring US communications, particularly in a low-level cipher that we knew to be compromised, but that the Japanese were unaware we knew. There was also a secure physical cable to Midway, on which orders were sent to broadcast a message saying the island's fresh water plant had failed. Later, the JN25 cryptanalysis produced "AF is short of fresh water", giving a significant entry point into the location code; as I remember, with one or two entries, it became more of a brevity code than presenting any real challenge. | |||
::In general, I would suggest, at this point, freely creating Related Pages and brain-dumping terms into them. The more I work with the Related Pages and associated template methods, and explore it with Chris, the more organizational and navigation ideas I get. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 13:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 07:27, 2 November 2008
Good material, Sandy
This is just the sort of information flow for which I hoped when I created this Related Articles (RA) page. We can structure it later.
My increasing sense is that dumping out topics on perhaps a hierarchy of RA pages is that -- not just here -- it is a way to deal with assorted peoples' top-down vs. bottom-up style. There's a major difference between demanding a capstone article, and just having a root RA page that branches into more. 12:53, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
- What about ciphertext-only vs known plaintext, chosen plaintext, ... not sure of the whole list. I've even heard "chosen ciphertext"; my guess it involves tricking someone into decrypting things that help your analysis, but I'm nowhere near certain. Do those get articles? Redirects into sections of cryptanalysis? Should they include lists of other attacks, such as I've started in active attack and passive attack? Sandy Harris 13:15, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
- Do see the running discussion at CZ Talk: Usability, where your input would be very welcome. To some extent, the immediate goal is getting out the problems we'd like to solve, with the solution second, but sometimes one has to play with the solution to solve the problem.
- As I understand chosen plaintext, it's passive. Against Enigma, "Heil Hitler" near the start of the plaintext would be an obvious example.
- Something that I've only heard called a "barium meal" or not even specific terms may be closer to the "tricking". Is the Battle of Midway target confirmation an example of what you have in mind? Cryptanalysis of the JN25 fleet code said they were going attack "AF", but the target codes were an inner layer. Confirming it took multiple steps, including a number that will not be available in every circumstance. The US knew that Japan was monitoring US communications, particularly in a low-level cipher that we knew to be compromised, but that the Japanese were unaware we knew. There was also a secure physical cable to Midway, on which orders were sent to broadcast a message saying the island's fresh water plant had failed. Later, the JN25 cryptanalysis produced "AF is short of fresh water", giving a significant entry point into the location code; as I remember, with one or two entries, it became more of a brevity code than presenting any real challenge.
- In general, I would suggest, at this point, freely creating Related Pages and brain-dumping terms into them. The more I work with the Related Pages and associated template methods, and explore it with Chris, the more organizational and navigation ideas I get. Howard C. Berkowitz 13:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)