User talk:Michel van der Hoek

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Edit proposal for "Myth" Section on Netherlands, History

This is my proposal:

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Earliest History and Myths

The Low Countries were inhabited by numerous Germanic tribes who had an agricultural society. By the third century, these tribes organized into larger federations and three main groups emerged: the Franks in the South, the Saxons in the East, and the Frisians in the North and West. Little is known of the pre-Christian pagan beliefs of the Germanic tribes, though it seems that Wodan and Donar were worshiped by the Germanic tribes in the Low Countries.

In earlier research of the origins of Netherlandish society, a number of myths shaped the scholarly discourse as well as the national consciousness. Many authors in the 17th and 18th centuries believed in the "Batavian myth" which posited the existence of an independent and free Batavian state and society in the Roman period after the example of the new Dutch Republic. By 1800, scholars realized the myth was false.

In the late 19th century, scholars propounded the idea that the Franks, Frisians, and Saxons were not only the oldest ancestors of the Dutch people, but also that the modern descendants reflected the original values and strengths. The idea caught on and was taught in the schools, for this theory explained why the Belgians (Franks) were Catholic and the Frisians and Saxons were Protestant. The success of this theory of origins was partly due to theories in anthropology, which were were based on a tribal paradigm. Being politically and geographically inclusive and leaving at the same time space for diversity, this historical vision filled the needs of Dutch nation-building and integration in the period 1890-1914. However, the disadvantages of this historical interpretation soon became apparent. It suggested there were no strong external borders, while allowing for the fairly clear-cut internal borders that were emerging as the society pillarized into three parts. (I do not understand this final phrase - MvdH). Especially during the Second World War, the origins myth proved to be no defense against the dangers of regional separatism and annexation to Germany. After 1945, the tribal paradigm lost its grip on anthropology; the "three-tribes-theme" was also fundamentally questioned and slowly faded away.

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End of proposal. Michel van der Hoek 10:40, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

good job and I will incorporate it. Pillarization ("verzuiling") will get explained in a section that has not been written. It means Netherlands after 1850 became like three separate societies that live side by side in their own closed worlds, with little interaction. The pillars were based on religion, (For example each group had its own newspapers and TV stations and sports leagues). It faded away after 1970.Richard Jensen 12:48, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

Yes, now that makes sense. I wish there were a better word for "verzuiling" in English. I actually wrote the section on political parties and pillarization in the article for the Netherlands. Pillarization itself may have faded mostly, the after effects are still visible in the separate trade unions (FNV, CNV, GMV, etc.), TV stations (KRO, NCRV, VARA, AVRO, etc.), newspapers, etc. Even though they are not as strongly sectarian any more nowadays (especially the media), all traces of pillarized society have not been wiped out yet. Strongholds of socialism as well as of conservative Reformed pillars still exist. Michel van der Hoek 12:59, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

Palatalization

Check out the main page - your article is the 'new draft of the week'. :) John Stephenson 04:37, 28 May 2008 (CDT)

Wow. And I notice you seconded the nomination. Thanks! Michel van der Hoek 20:27, 28 May 2008 (CDT)