User talk:Martin Baldwin-Edwards/Countries draft

Errors of Fact.

"Arguably, Palestine and Northern Cyprus could be placed in this category of de facto states, but legally it is clear that they remain constituent territories of Israel and Cyprus, respectively."

Legally? Israel occupied the west back and other territories during the 6 days war. There have been numerous UN resolutions against Israel's occupation and settlement of these lands. I think the term that the land is Legally part of Israel is rather dubious. They are, maybe, part of Israel, but not legally so.

"American usage tends to emphasise political boundaries..."

I think we should ignore the view point of any one state. It's accepting an American bias when we should be neutral.

"194 [check with UN] of these are recognized within the United Nations; four more constitute exceptional cases. These are the Holy See, which is granted Observer status within the UN;" The implication here is that the UN does not recognise the Holy See. I don't think that's what you meant. The Holy See is recognised by the UN and offered membership but the Holy See declined.

"Taiwan (also known as the Republic of China) which is a de facto state not recognized by China;"

Need to be clear about the P.R.China, not just 'China' when talking about both states at the same time. Also, the ROC is not recognised by the majority of other states so it's unfair to single out just the PRC.

The Taiwan, Norther Cyprus, Palestine, etc issue are all incredibly complex. To try and summarise them in one or two lines will never work and never be neutral. On some of these topics, there is no neutral. I think take your own advice. Try to explain the subject without resorting to examples as the example will always be prone to dispute.Derek Harkness 11:06, 15 May 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the comments, Derek. I will try to accommodate them. The issue with Northern Cyprus and Palestine is that they are Occupied Territories, so I suppose it would be better to describe them as such. You are right about Palestine, but Northern Cyprus is now [sort of] part of the EU, and what I wrote is correct.

THe American usage thing is not mine, and I have reverted to my original.

The Holy See issue is not described, merely summarised: to be honest [I am not Catholic!] I don't think it really matters:-)

THe issue with PRC, China, Taiwan: any intelligent informed offers will be accepted. I am not expert in that region.

Larry has suggested privately that the table needs to be limited to the first category: I think I agree, and the others will go into another table. I will attempt this in the next few days. Further comments welcomed [and the chnages of Wahib Frank will also be taken into account] --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 15:25, 16 May 2007 (CDT)